Collection of Internet/Collection of Internet.iso/infosrvr/dev/www_talk.930/000004_timbl _Thu Oct 31 11:49:15 1991.msg

Internet Message Format | 1994-01-24 | 6KB

Return-Path: <timbl>
Received: by  nxoc01.cern.ch  (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0)
    id AA09130; Thu, 31 Oct 91 11:49:15 GMT+0100
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 11:49:15 GMT+0100
From: timbl (Tim Berners-Lee)
Message-Id: <9110311049.AA09130@ nxoc01.cern.ch >
Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.62)
To: Edward Vielmetti <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Home page design, WAIS gateway bug, MSEN
Cc: www-talk

Ed, you asked:

>> Any chance that you could put the "home page" from CERN and some
other sample good pages up for anonymous FTP? <<

Done for the CERN home page:
//info.cern.ch/pub/WWWLineModeDefaults.tar.Z

> I'd be interested to hear any thoughts you have on what it takes to
> make a good home page.  I suppose you want to be sure that a user
> doesn't get so completely lost that they can't find their way out,
> enough local information that people feel more or less at home.
> hm hm hm.

Yes, Good home page design is an art -- like the cover of a magazine,
or a quick-reference card. Of course it depends on the readership.
The CERN home page has to start with the CERN things to minimise the
number of keystokes/clicks for the largest number of users. At the
same time, it needs pointers for someone with a broader interest to
rapidly find a wider topic, and it has to suggest to people what is
behind it so that later they will use it again on another topic.
The competition for the first 24 lines is hot! I have thought of
having a "Latest additions" link, so that people who though they know
the web can check for new bits.

There is also the question of whether to make the layout really open
(lots of white space), with 5 well-explained links on each page, or
to cram in as much as possible. I feel one should start with
something very open and obvious, but then get more compact once the
reader is into something he is interested in and has got the hang of
the program. Having a fast scollbar make it much easier to cope with
lots of open text. People must have done their PhDs on this sort of
thing...

I suspect one should have, for each site/organisation, a public home
page for those from outside, as well as a private one for those who
will underderstand terms differently. For example, a link to the CERN
phone book from outside could mention that the numbers need to be
prefixed with +41(22)767!

Also, both pages should be linked to some list of other sites.
Perhaps a tree of pages which emulate the domain/x500 naming scheme a
little would be useful because people are used to browsing that way,
and will be able to once x500 is part of the web. This is only one
structure which is useful, though. A tree by subject a la Dewey
decimal system would be another - hypertext would get over the tree
restriction which limits Dewey's usefulness. In fact, making
hypertext overviews and making indexes of third party data should be
"value added services" which anyone - library, or company like
yourselves, should be able to do on top of existing data. Making
sense of the morass of data (as you have been doing for years) is a
very valuable contribution to the world of knowledge. Such ordered
overview or review information is likely to be much more widely read
than the underlying documents.  The best reviews will be most quoted,
and hence most read, so survival of the fittest will ensure that most
people don't spend their time reading junk.

> By the way, it's possible to build a Sun 3 client with no problem
> at all - just make a "sun3" directory, copy in the Sun 4 makefile,

> and make.

Thanks - I don't have sun3 to test on, but I'll make the directory
any copy the makefile: thanks!


> "Document address invalid or access not authorised" on

 'http://info.cern.ch./hypertext/Products/WAIS/NewsGroupRelated.html'
> could you check on it?)

Oops .. [Long story: The default home page in the last release has a
pointer to a file ...Products/WAIS/Sources.html which had just been
renamed  ...Products/WAIS/Sources/Overview.html. When you read it,
there was a soft link from the old to the new so you read the new
file but with the client thinking it was at the old address. This
worked until I put in the new relative link to your list. Then, the
relative link was parsed relative to the old address, generating the
bad adderss above]. It should be ok now.


___________________________________________________________________

>> I figured out how to store a WAIS query.  For your "What is MSEN"
pointer,  something like
<A
HREF=http://info.cern.ch:8001/quake.think.com:210/wais-discussion-arc
hives?msen> will work just fine. <<

Well done! .. I've linked "MSEN" in your list to you main document.

By the way, I want to make that address

    wais:/quake.think.com:210/wais-discussion-archives?msen

but first I have to put into the client a table of gateway addresses
for protocols the client doesn't know himself.

>> I hacked the line mode client so that "RECALL" and "LIST" spit
things out in a format that's ready to cut and paste into a source
document; that was the easiest way to get documents of my own going
quickly. <<

Ok...I wondered whether a command "Append a reference to this node in
HTML to file xxx" would be useful. It would allow people to keep
lists of interesting nodes in their own space. It's in the Line Mode
bug list now.

________________________________

>> WAIS database names can include / in them, which
gums up your heuristics for figuring out how to parse them. <<


Yes -- that's true.  I should escape them or something...

Thanks for all your feedback, Ed.  MSEN sound like something heading
in the right direction.  By the way, do your [prospective] clients
have workstations in general, or is it all MDOS? Do they dial in, or
have leased lines?

I wish I could have gone to the IETF to meet a few people in person,
yourself included, but Robert Cauilliau and I are going to HyperText
91 (Dec 15-18 in San Antonio TX), and that blows my US Travel quota.
Will you be at HT91 by any chance?

Tim BL